Wednesday
Aug292007
Show 54: Super Hero Icons
Wednesday, August 29, 2007 
What makes something an icon or a character iconic? Is it fame and notoriety or style and substance? Maybe it comes down to mainstream opportunities and longevity? No matter how you try to answer it makes for a good debate right? We thought so and battle it out on this edition of The Dollar Bin.
Reader Comments (40)
My list of Comic Book Character Icons based on what I think the general public would know if asked to write a list.
Heroes:
1. Superman
2.Batman (tie)
2. Spider-Man (tie)
4. Wonder Woman
5. Hulk
6. Captain America
7. Aquaman
8. Wolverine
9. Shazam
10. Human Torch
Villians
1. Darth Vader
2. Joker
3. Venom
4. Lex Luthor
5. Penguin
6. Riddler
7. Green Goblin
8. Magneto
9. Dr. Doom
10. Dr. Octopus
Other Icons (in no order)
Mickey Mouse
Donald Duck
Buggs Bunny
Lois Lane
The Loner Ranger
The Flash
Spawn
- Kevin Johnson
I'd put Flash instead of Captain Marvel and I wouldn't put Venom, but everything else I can kinda go along with (I might reorder though).
The reason I rate Venom so high is this. Everyone who I have talked to that doesn't read comics since the 90's seems to know who Venom is and when the biggest hype amongst these people for Spider-Man 3 was "I gotta see Venom" before it was even verified that he would be in the movie I felt like he is more popular than we all probably would believe.
As far as the Flash I think he probably would be up there on a lot of peoples list too...maybe they should race for it.
The order of the popularity of characters probably changes depending on movies and what is happening in the comics and person to person. Unless there is an official survey done it really probably is just what each person thinks the world should recognize as an iconic character.
-Kevin Johnson
I think I have to completely disagree with Brian about Lex Luthor being iconic. There's nothing really recognizable about him - he's a bald guy in a suit. I think that if you pulled a regular person off the street, they wouldn't be able to tell you Superman's nemesis. Well...I think it'd be hit and miss. You'd have people that remember Gene Hackman from the movies, and people who watch Smallville, but other than that, I don't think he's iconic. I bet you could replace him with Catwoman. I bet you'd get way more people recognizing Catwoman than Lex Luthor. I think she'd be right behind the Joker in villains (though her villain-ness is disputable I guess), and I think she'd give Wonder Woman and Captain America a run for their money.
And I want to agree with Tre about Plastic Man, but I bet that's a generational thing. I bet if you asked who the iconic "stretchy guy" was, anyone in their mid-30s and older would say Plas; younger, they'd say that guy from the Fantastic 4.
I bet I couldn't use the phrase "I bet" any more if I tried.
That's what I get for holding my 6-month-old, type with one hand, and try to figure out what to write all at the same time...
Catwoman and Plastic Man are good too...I forgot about her I think she's gonna have to be on my list but I am way too lazy to re-do it!
-Kevin
I'll say. You appear to have even been too lazy to sign your last name on your sign out this time around as well.
I think Catwoman would stand out. Basically, if you put a girl in a Cat suit and ask someone who she is the response will be Cat Woman. Whether they know why or not I can not say, but they will know.
Last names are for Suckers!!! Long live the sexy catwomen of the world!!!
- Kevin Johnson (I'm a sucker!)
Heres the thing,
growing up in a place where superheroes aren't as widespread and well known as in the states, I knew about superman and Batman and spiderman for many years from a very young age, largely because of the cartoons for batman and spiderman and superman from the original films. I wasn't aware of wonderwoman, green lantern, the flash or any other dc heroes till around my late teens and the only other marvel heroes i was aware of was the x-men (again from cartoons). Was this because they were iconic?
No
It was because they were around and readily available to be recognised. The reason they have the shows is cause they are iconic? Nope, they have the shows because they are a product that sells.
An icon is something that readily comes to mind when you think of something it is representative of. Superman is an iconi superhero because he is one of the first that comes to mind when most people are asked. Batman, ditto, spiderman, sure, green lantern? nope.
Oh and a freind of mine recognised aquaman in a familyguy joke and he's never read any of the comics or seen a show with him in it. How is that possible?
Well I think the biggest way to tell if a character may be "iconic" is if someone recognizes him/her and has never read a comic. I admit I am surprised at how well known Aquaman is, but he sure is. I think to be iconic it means that that character must be willing or not to represent the rest of the comic industry. And whether we like it or not Aquaman represents.
PS: My mind kinda drifted around a little on that last comment so I have no idea if it makes sense and I don't plan on going back and reading to make sure.
I know this is kind of late but I just got a new job and haven't been able to listen for a while so I'm still catching up. I really think that this is entirely a generational thing. I think that is why Superman and Batman have to be so high on the list. They've been around for almost 70 years each and are the lead characters in the longest consecutive run of comics ever with Action and Detective. They have been passed on from Great Grandfathers, to Grandfathers, to Fathers, and now to the next generation. This is true of a lot of DC's characters (and yes, that includes Aquaman who has been around since the early 40s himself and actually predates Namor by several years.). The thing about DC though is that the Silver Age revamped so many of their characters that while Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman remained primarily unchanged, everybody else got the total makeover treatment. It also introduced the Marvel Universe so if you didn't like the confusion of the DCU or if it had gotten stale, here is a whole new world of characters set in a world much more like our own, with real cities, real situations, and much more tied to the world we know. It was the new thing. That being said, I agree that the list does have to have Superman and Batman in the top 2 spots with Spidey probably coming in third but from there on, it really is a crapshoot based on how old you are.
One more thing about Red Tornado. She is his wife. She was a social worker that took an interest in him because he was so awkward in society. Traya (the daughter) entered the picture a little later as a foster child and somewhere in the interim, Reddy and his "girlfriend" got married and adopted Traya. Just so you know.
Bryan
I love me some history of Red Tornado, who coincidently is from the future, so isn't his past in the future? Man that's one crazy mixed up timeline.
Just had to share this pic I put together based on one of Tre's comments (though it's nowhere near as Kris's digital awesomeness).
I give you...
http://comicbookheroes.blogspot.com/2007/09/harold-of-galactus.html" rel="nofollow">Harold of Galactus
That is awesome Jim. Kris pointed it out to me last week. Then he had to explain to me who Harold was and then I laughed.
Since my job requires little to no use of my brain, I get to listen to my mp3 player a lot at work, so I've been burning through "back issues" of the Dollar Bin. I felt I just had to put my two cents in on this one. I think you guys missed a few points in the conversation.
First off, you didn't account for world-wide recognition. I'm not sure people in Japan or France would know the Hulk over Goku from Dragonball or Tintin, respectively. To that point as well, there's Asterix, Judge Dredd, and Astro Boy. I'm really not even sure that a teen today in the U.S. would recognize and know as much about Wonder Woman as he or she knows about any Naruto character. What I'm getting at is the sliding scale will not only alter for the time period, but also for region, age, sex, and any number of characteristics.
Secondly, there was not a single mention of any character that wasn't a super-hero or super-villain. I think J. Jonah Jameson and Mary Jane Watson are, today, as recognizable as the Hulk or Catwoman. And then there's the fact that characters like Scrooge McDuck, an icon anyway you cut it, got their start in comics. Anyone over the age of twenty knows Uncle Scrooge, Huey, Dewey, and Louie knows who they are.
Lastly, where the f$#ck is Robin? If you're gonna make a list of comics book super-hero icons, you go, Superman, Batman, Robin, then Spider-man. That's just how it works.
Great show, guys. Looks like this one lit up the board when it dropped.
I gotta disagree with the robin thing. I think I even may have on the show.
Also, I disagree with the JJJ and MJ. There is nothing of note about either of them. Who's that angry guy that runs the newspaper and hate Spider-man? .. how the hell should it know..? Hey, who is Mary Jane? ..? Pot..? What? Oh, yeah. He's that angry guy from Oz.
Yeah, you're probably right about JJJ and MJ, but Robin was one of the Super Friends. The only multi-media version of Batman to not have Robin at some point has been the latest Movie incarnation. Also, Robin did get a lot more exposure from the Teen Titans cartoon. My step-daughter didn't realize that Robin had anything to do with Batman until she saw them together on the cover of a comic and I had to explain it. Also, if you're playing Match Game (which is still the greatest game show ever) and the clue is "Batman..." I'd bet my next paycheck that at least 80% of the people would say "and Robin."
Word.
Gotta agree with terry on this, A lot of the time people will know who robin is because he has been in nearly everything batman related since his creation.
They probably wont know whose behind the mask though.