Thursday
Aug162007
Show 50: HULK SMASH
Thursday, August 16, 2007 
The Marvel world is at war with the Hulk, but how do we feel about him and this crossover? Kris, Adam and Brian ventured up to Richard’s Comics and Collectables in Greenville, South Carolina to discuss all things Hulk with store regular John, store employee John (the occasional word from store employee Brendon) and the infamous J Chris Campbell for this edition of the Dollar Bin.
Reader Comments (34)
I listen to the Dollar Bin every week, and I usually enjoy it immensely, but you guys just lost a ton a credibility with me by NOT knowing who Howard Chaykin is.
Although his most recent work may not be quite as strong as his past work, Chaykin is a writer/artist who is legend in the industry for his impeccable sense of design, strong storytelling, and groundbreaking use of typography in his work. Chaykin illustrated the very first comic adaptation of Star Wars, but he is most well known for his highly influential creator-owned work American Flagg! from First Comics. AF! featured the same sort of mature themes and wild, fully-realized worlds that guys like Matt Fraction and Joe Casey only dream about creating. At First Comics, Chaykin also wrote and two graphic novels that you should really track down, entitled Time Squared that were a volatile mix of fast talkin', hard-drinkin' dames, Art Deco 30s style, be-bop, demon cops, zombie robots, and transforming, oversexed killer police cars. Time Squared included one of the coolest lines in all of comics history: "There I was, two weeks out of seminary with a .45 in one hand and an underage blonde in the other." And that was a THROW-AWAY line from a background character!!
Chaykin later created the graphic novel, Black Kiss, which was originally published through Vortex I believe. Black Kiss, which blended eroticism and horror in a cynical, vicious brew that would make Mark Millar blush. Chaykin also drew series such as The Shadow, Blackhawks, Power & Glory, and American Century.
Chaykin only recently returned to comics after a stint in Hollywood writing for shows like The Flash, Viper, and Mutant X.
And everything above is just what I can recall off the top of my head, no Wikipedia trip needed. Dudes, you really owe it to yourselves to hunt down some American Flagg! Chaykin was rockin' world-weary cynicism and mashin' up genres in comics when guys like Warren Ellis and Grant Morrison were still trying to steal a kiss or sneak a few puffs behind the schoolhouse!
Ha! I knew he'd been around awhile, and had an extensive comic background, but I've never been real familiar with his stuff. Well, except for the Elseworlds I've got in my collection...but his other stuff sounds interesting enough to go pick up.
Oh, yeah - I think my favorite Hulk is the comics I have from the late 70's/early 80's. The "Hulk smash!" stuff. Back then he was my favorite superhero. But I don't understand why they can't write that in an interesting way to keep it going. I mean, Spider-Man is interesting because of the conflict of being Peter Parker, and struggling with being Spider-Man at the same time. You'd think they could write the internal struggle of Banner and Hulk and keep it interesting.
And I was real disappointed in the movie. I thought the comic book stuff was creative, but the movie just didn't do anything for me. It just never grabbed me. I thought it was kind of tedious.
Sorry about that Jay. Tre is really our credibility guy and he couldn't make it to the show in Greenville. I myself take no responsibility for credibility. I'm more of a here in the now guy. I'm am steadily learning though, thanks to Tre and our commentors like you who throw stuff at me like that that. I talked to Flaco about him last weekend as well and he gave with the whole run down about how Chaykin worked his ass off on all these great small name projects back in the day and worked his way up and should be respected and revered for that, but I'll say the same thing I told him, "That may be so, but the people in that last Punisher book sucked ass. The backgrounds where great. There is a rug in one of the scenes and it looks amazing. If I can get my hands on some of that older stuff then I'll check it out, but I will give no man props for a book with shitty people in it just because of stuff he's done in the past."
marvel boy's name was NOH-VARR u n00bz!! lol....
I mean I'll admit to having little background and 0 memory (that's why we record or discussions), but you can't expect everyone to remember the name of a rather lame secondary ass character like Marvel Boy. As far as I know John has lived comics for the last 3/4 of his life so I definitely don't think he can be referred to him as a noob. Did you hear the stuff he was pulling out of no where. I'm just saying. I mean how many story lines has Marvel Boy been in? I'll admit I liked the Civil War: Young Avengers/ Runaways, but it wasn't for NOH-VARR and that sure as hell didn't help me remember his name.
Crimy. We loose Tre for a day and suddenly we get hassled left and right for not knowing everything about comics. I miss Tre, but I kinda like the criticism. I just hope everyone keeps listening anyway. Tre will be back shortly next week (and by next week I mean the couples days after this post. Except thats when we record so it will be the couple day after this post plus the next week. so yeah.).
I've never claimed to be comic book encyclopedia and I am completely fine with not only having no clue who Chaykin is but with not knowing a lot of other things as well.
Jay if you feel like you can add something to the dollar bin panel I am sure they can phone conference you in like they did for Adam a few weeks back when he was on holidays. Then you can point out their failings in real time. Same applies to you KomikGeek4000!!
Wow.
was that hostile?
Andrew,
If you're serious about the invite, I would be glad to contribute.
I tend to follow artists as opposed to characters, storylines, or writers, and I get frustrated by the short shrift that artists seem to get in the digital and ink comic book press. Think about it, whenever a new book or series is rolled out, comic news sites will dedicate numerous column inches of virtual ink to interviews with the writer, the writer's vision, etc., who will throw in some praise for the artist, that may be heartfelt, but comes across as obligatory and perfunctory (i.e. How many times have we read, "I was blown away by his stuff!" by a comic writer. Why, exactly? How did it blow you away, sir? What made it good?) Sometimes you'll read interviews accompanied by sketches that don't even credit the artist. Case in point, when Newsarama unveiled the sketches for The Great Ten from the 52 series, J.G. Jones wasn't mentioned or credited as the artist.
Back to the point of my original post, although Chaykin may not be producing his best work now, he was an incredible innovator during the 1980s, and was one of the creators that was regarded in the same category of innovation as other writer/artists of the time like Matt Wagner, Mike Grell, Los Bros. Hernandez, Walt Simonson and Frank Miller.
I may have been too strident in my comments, but when no one in attendance had a clue who Howard Chaykin was, to me it was the equivalent of a bunch of film critics completing a screening of the 1996 version of The Island of Dr. Moreau, and wondering who the fat, mumbling actor with the ice bucket on his head was. No, it wasn't Marlon Brando's finest hour, and you don't have to know everything the man did, but I think it is extremely helpful to have a passing knowledge of his body of work and his place in the history of modern cinema. The same applies to Howard Chaykin. without him, for better or worse, there might not be books like Casanova, The Intimates, 100 Bullets, or Wanted, and you wouldn't have artists like Lee Bermejo, Dean Haspiel, Dan Brereton or J.H. Williams, who cite Chaykin as influences in their work, just as Milton Caniff and Alex Toth inspired Chaykin.
Hey Jay,
Again, thanks for commenting. As you may have (or soon will hear) we have started releasing smaller show segments on Mondays now too and Andrew has a point. Maybe I will make one of those segments a chat with a listener. I could be interesting. I know the first thing Kris checks before he'll even buy a book is the art. I tell you art can make or break a book. Its definitely a first impression. Lately I've been going through a lot more Indy books and deciding if I'll pick it up simply based on the art. Sometimes it works out and sometimes not so much. Maybe we can have a discussion on the Artist's Impact on a Book. For instance not even Bianchi could save Wolverine.
BTB: Chris Campbell has this link to a bunch of Hulk sketches I thought I'd share:
http://hometown.aol.com/collector838/myhomepage/
I think its cool that a prod post got this sort of response. Maybe somewhere down the line there could be an area on the Dollar Bin for listener to submit their own reviews of comics. Which gives us another area to participate in the site with and build a nice little community with a kick ass knowledge base.
Hey Adam - can any of us invite listeners to ?
Hey, Jim, I bet The Dollar Bin would let you be one of their regulars - they can just dial you in on the phone!
Thanks, Jim, I'll take that invite!
Anytime you guys want me to join in, let me know!
(just kidding, Andrew - I know what you were saying)
Jim,
I heard Adam, Brian and Kris are going to be pitching in to fly you down and record live with them coz your special.
Cheers,
Andrew.
Thanks for letting me know, Andrew!! That's the best news I've heard all day!
Is our sarcasm contagious, or is that just who we attract? I hope to god we aren't spreading this sarcasm disease. I don't want to be held responsible for it. I blame Brian. No, wait Tre, yeah... Tre.